Rethinking Turnover

Claire Monroe

Hey everyone—welcome back to The Science of Leading! I’m Claire Monroe, and I am, as always, sitting across the mic from the legend himself, Mr. Edwin Carrington. Edwin... how’s today treating you?

Edwin Carrington

Good to be here, Claire. I’m feeling well. And today’s topic... it’s one I’ve seen come up again and again over the years—why employees really leave.It’s almost never the reason leaders think it is.

Claire Monroe

Nooo, it’s not. And honestly? It took me forever to learn that. I remember this one guy—superstar employee. Like, top five percent. Out of the blue, he hands in his notice, and I just... assumed it was money. I think I even said something like, “Well, guess he got a better offer.”But a few months later, someone told me he’d felt completely burned out. Said he felt invisible.And I just... I’d missed it. Totally missed it.

Edwin Carrington

That story, Claire—it’s classic. I hear it all the time. Leaders default to compensation because it’s visible, it’s clean. But honestly? If that were the whole picture, retention would be easy.We’ve seen the data—Wellhub, NetSuite, Indeed—they’ve all shown it: pay matters, yes. But the deeper drivers? They’re more human. Role fit. Cultural alignment. Management style.If those are off, no bonus is going to save it.

Claire Monroe

Yeah, and I was reading this breakdown—I think it was NetSuite?—about voluntary vs. involuntary turnover. And like... in both cases, people were bailing because the job wasn’t what they thought it’d be. Or the culture felt wrong.Oh—and there was that stat: almost a third of people leave in the first 90 days.Which is wild.

Edwin Carrington

It is. And it tracks.Another big piece? The manager relationship. Gallup’s been saying it for years—the connection between an employee and their manager is one of the strongest predictors of engagement.So if that relationship is strained—or just nonexistent? You’ll feel it long before someone brings up salary.

Claire Monroe

Yeah... and culture. I mean, it just keeps coming up.Like even from what we’ve seen at OAD, or just out in the wild—when someone doesn’t feel like they belong? Or like their values clash with the company’s?That clock starts ticking.I used to brush that off, honestly. Like, “Oh, she just wants more money.” But looking back? That was just the excuse.

Edwin Carrington

You’re not alone, Claire. It’s a common trap.The truth is—misfit, lack of growth, weak culture—those are quiet signals.They don’t show up on a spreadsheet.But if you scratch beneath the surface of chronic turnover, those are almost always the culprits.

Claire Monroe

So yeah, if anyone listening is hearing alarm bells right now... just to sum it up?Turnover isn’t just about the paycheck. It’s about whether the job fits, whether the culture feels right, and whether your manager actually sees you.Which—yeah—that’s a much bigger deal than “let’s add a ping pong table.”

Claire Monroe

Okay so... Edwin—riddle me this.Why are we still seeing companies go all-in on perks and pizza Fridays when turnover hasn’t budged?

Edwin Carrington

That’s the paradox.It’s easier—safer even—for organizations to throw perks at the problem.But here’s the thing: people want meaning. They want work that matters, leaders who listen, a culture that actually reflects who they are.You can’t keep layering snacks and bonuses on top of misalignment and expect people to stay.

Claire Monroe

Totally. And it’s not that those things are bad, right?Like—free lunch? Love that for me.But I worked with a company once that rolled out this huge wellbeing initiative—yoga, lunch, plants everywhere. Looked great on paper.But when I talked to people? They were like, “Yeah, I’m still not getting feedback. I have no idea how to move up.”So the vibe was: nice... but not enough.

Edwin Carrington

Exactly.If the foundation’s unstable—no role clarity, no feedback loop, no sense of future—then perks feel like window dressing.Some of the companies that have really moved the needle? They’ve gone deep.Trader Joe’s, for example, doubled down on recognition, real talk, development conversations.Turnover dropped not because of the extras, but because people felt seen.

Claire Monroe

That’s the part leaders don’t want to hear, right?Culture eats perks for breakfast.And I get it—fixing culture or building real development pathways takes work.So Edwin, why do you think so many leaders shy away from the deeper stuff?Is it... fear? Laziness? Habit?

Edwin Carrington

Some of all three, honestly.But mostly? It’s because pay is quantifiable.It’s easier to approve a raise than to unpack team dynamics or train managers to lead better.But here’s what the research shows—when you actually tailor roles, support individual motivators, and listen? That’s when things shift.Companies that invest in mentorship, internal mobility, even honest exit interviews... they see real change.Not because they paid more. But because they understood more.

Claire Monroe

Which ties back to so many of our other episodes.Like—once you stop treating turnover like a symptom and actually get to the source, that’s where the magic happens.

Edwin Carrington

Exactly.Real retention is strategy.Not stickers and slogans—it’s consistent communication, intentional culture, and leadership that actually leads.

Claire Monroe

Alright, let’s get practical. Edwin—what actually works if a company wants to reduce turnover for real?Like—how does something like OAD’s assessments actually help, day to day?

Edwin Carrington

This is where science gets real.Tools like behavioral assessments help you move past what’s on the paper—beyond CVs and credentials—and get to how someone’s wired.You get insight into what motivates them, how they communicate, what kind of environment they’ll thrive in.And that helps you design roles and teams that actually fit.It’s proactive, not reactive.

Claire Monroe

And that doesn’t stop after someone’s hired, right?Like—I think a lot of managers make the hire, and then... it’s like, “Okay, good luck!”But the real work is checking in—having those conversations about alignment, expectations, growth.Which I know can feel awkward. Especially if you realize there’s a mismatch.

Edwin Carrington

It can be uncomfortable. But it’s necessary.I’ve seen organizations completely turn things around just by building that habit.There was one mid-sized company we worked with—turnover was a mess.We brought in assessments, trained managers on regular check-ins—not annual reviews, monthly conversations.People started opening up. And within a year, turnover had dropped by almost half.Because they finally felt seen. Supported. And clear on what came next.

Claire Monroe

That’s huge.Okay—so if I’m a manager listening, what’s my action plan?Like—give me the cheat sheet.

Edwin Carrington

Number one—interview for fit, not just skills. Use tools to get deeper.Number two—create a regular feedback rhythm. Not just when things go wrong, but to celebrate strengths.Number three—bring employees into the culture conversation. Let them shape it with you.And number four—be real about career paths. Even if there’s no promotion right away, clarity builds trust.

Claire Monroe

Yes. Love that.Because the science isn’t, like... magic. It’s just intentionality.Use the right tools. Keep the conversations going. And stop looking for one-size-fits-all fixes.

Edwin Carrington

Exactly.And if you’re wondering how to start putting that into action—OAD’s tools are a great way in.You can test them out for free at o-a-d-dot-a-i.It’s a simple way to bring more clarity and alignment into your hiring—and keep the right people longer.

Claire Monroe

That’s the goal, right?Alright Edwin—thank you for another brain-expanding convo.I’m walking away with, like... a to-do list for my soul, honestly.

Edwin Carrington

Ha! Well, that’s the idea.Small steps, wide eyes—and always dig deeper than the obvious.

Claire Monroe

We hope you all got something out of today’s episode.Head over to OAD.ai for more resources—and keep listening.Edwin, next time?

Edwin Carrington

Next time, Claire. Be well, everyone.

Claire Monroe

See you soon, everybody!