Transforming Managers into Leaders

Claire Monroe

Hi everyone, welcome back to The Science of Leading. I'm Claire Monroe, and I'm here with my always-wise co-host, Edwin Carrington. Edwin, today we're zeroing in on something I think every listener either dreads or aspires to: transforming managers into genuine leaders. And honestly, I used to think—maybe this is a little embarrassing—that some people just had that ‘leadership gene’ and others, well, didn’t. But that just isn’t how it works, right?

Edwin Carrington

That's right, Claire. It's a persistent myth, but the data tells us a very different story. Gallup’s research actually found that managers account for up to 70% of the variance in employee engagement. So if you’re wondering why one team’s thriving and the other’s limping along? Usually, you need to look at the manager. And not just any manager—a leader who’s invested in their own development, and their people's.

Claire Monroe

Seventy percent, that’s wild. I remember reading that and thinking... no wonder engagement feels like such a moving target. But what’s stopping organizations from just fixing this with training? Why aren’t we all surrounded by great leaders already?

Edwin Carrington

Great question. Partly, it’s that old myth you mentioned—the idea that leaders are just ‘born’ that way. But if you look at people like Dale Carnegie, or even Jeff Bezos—he talks a lot about learning and evolving, not some “innate gift.” Leadership is built; it’s the product of continuous learning, not genetic lottery. But too many companies offer one-off seminars, hope for charisma, and assume it’ll stick.

Claire Monroe

It sounds like that approach is almost guaranteed to miss the mark. And, Edwin, you’ve told me before about companies overlooking what you call “hidden costs”—like when a top performer leaves because they’re not being developed. Do you see that playing out often?

Edwin Carrington

Oh, far too often. I’ll give you a real example. I worked with a sales director—consistently at the top of her game, always hitting quota. But her manager never invested in her development. After a year? She was gone. The organization lost not just a star, but all the institutional knowledge and momentum she brought. That’s what happens when leadership coaching is neglected. Those are the costs that rarely appear in the spreadsheet, but they echo for years.

Claire Monroe

So there’s a huge opportunity here, not just to improve performance or retention, but to prevent that kind of silent, slow bleed of talent and culture. Honestly, it’s a little intimidating—where do you even start?

Edwin Carrington

It always starts with recognizing that managing and leading are worlds apart. Coaching bridges the gap—and that, Claire, is where the magic happens.

Claire Monroe

Alright, let’s make this practical. What does it actually look like to develop managers into leaders? I know you’ve got a framework for this, Edwin.

Edwin Carrington

I do, and it’s not magic. It’s a disciplined process—four steps, really. First, you identify potential. Not everyone who crushes their targets is ready to lead. You’re looking for that mix of ambition, adaptability, and emotional intelligence. Second, you assess their strengths and blind spots. And I mean with real tools—like OAD’s assessments, or whatever scientific instrument you have on hand. Guesswork won’t cut it.

Claire Monroe

So, it’s not just “I think you’d be a good leader”—you’re digging into how someone thinks, what stresses them out, how they actually show up under pressure. That’s got to be eye-opening for some managers, right?

Edwin Carrington

Exactly. And that leads us to step three: coach with intention. The best coaching isn’t about generic advice. It’s targeted, it’s sometimes uncomfortable. Insightful conversations are the catalyst for change. I remember a CFO in coaching who finally faced up to the fact that his team was afraid to challenge him. That moment? It unlocked a whole new approach for him and, honestly, for his department.

Claire Monroe

That reminds me—Dave Stachowiak's podcast, _Coaching for Leaders_, is full of those kinds of “a-ha” moments, where someone finally gets honest feedback and something just... shifts. Those conversations seem to stick even long after the session ends.

Edwin Carrington

It’s that honesty—that openness to feedback—that drives real growth. But none of this matters if you don’t measure progress. That’s step four. Coaching must tie back to outcomes: are teams more engaged, is retention up, is the culture healthier? If you don’t measure it, you’re just guessing.

Claire Monroe

I want to dig into something here. You mentioned “psychological safety.” In all this, how important is it for coaching? Like, if someone feels like they can’t be vulnerable, doesn’t that just shut the whole process down?

Edwin Carrington

It absolutely does. Psychological safety isn’t just a feel-good phrase, it’s the bedrock of growth. If a manager feels judged or unsafe, they’ll just go into defense mode. That’s why tools like Plus Minus Next are so powerful—quickly reflecting on what’s working, what isn’t, and what should happen next in a safe, structured way. The most effective coaching spaces invite challenge and support, in equal measure.

Claire Monroe

I guess that’s another myth—people think coaching is all tough love, or only support and cheerleading. The good stuff is always a blend, right? Stretching someone, but having their back at the same time.

Edwin Carrington

You’ve got it. It’s a balancing act, and the leaders who master it see the fastest, deepest growth—in themselves, and their teams.

Claire Monroe

But it’s not all smooth sailing, right? There are classic mistakes organizations make when they try to coach their managers. What do you see most often?

Edwin Carrington

The big three? One-off workshops that fizzle out, one-size-fits-all approaches that ignore reality, and... failure to measure results. I’ve run those workshops myself, Claire, back in my early days. They were generic, people left inspired... and a week later, nothing had changed. I remember thinking, “Where did we go wrong?” Turns out, it was the lack of follow-up and personalization.

Claire Monroe

You know, that lines up with what we talked about a few episodes back—systems that “seem” strategic but don’t actually drive behavior. Honestly, it can get a bit overwhelming for HR and team leaders who want to do it right. Where do they begin if they want to kickstart coaching today?

Edwin Carrington

First, consistency over intensity. Swap single events for an ongoing cadence—weekly coaching conversations, even short ones, are more valuable than a big annual gathering. Second, personalize wherever possible. Use data and conversations to uncover what each leader actually needs. And third, accountability: measure, and then actually act on what you learn. The change should be visible.

Claire Monroe

And is it fair to say it all comes back to senior leaders setting the tone? I’m thinking of Satya Nadella at Microsoft—he didn’t just “talk” about growth mindset, he lived it, and suddenly everyone else showed up differently too.

Edwin Carrington

That’s spot on, Claire. When senior leaders model curiosity, feedback, and growth in their own behavior, it ripples through the organization. Leadership stops being a title, and becomes a shared responsibility—just like coaching.

Claire Monroe

So, if you’re listening and you’re an HR pro, team lead, or just someone who cares about doing this better... don’t wait for a “program.” Start small, listen more, ask better questions, and celebrate progress. That’s how the culture changes, right?

Edwin Carrington

Exactly right. And remember—building leaders is never a quick win. But it pays off in engagement, performance, and the kind of workplace where people stick around for more than just a paycheck.

Claire Monroe

Edwin, as always, thank you for the wisdom. And thanks to all of you for joining us today. We’ve got a lot more to dive into on The Science of Leading, so hit subscribe and we’ll see you next time. Edwin, I’ll give you the last word—

Edwin Carrington

Thanks, Claire. Remember, everyone—leadership isn’t fate, it’s a craft. Keep learning, keep leading, and we’ll talk soon.

Claire Monroe

Bye everyone!

Edwin Carrington

Take care, Claire—take care, folks.